Deadlift question

I quite like deadlifting and, relative to my overall strength level, I'm not bad at it.
I have what I believe is a fairly common problem though, as soon as the weight gets near my max, my arse tends to shoot up without the weight, then it's all lower back.
My strategy for dealing with it has generally been to (mostly) lift within myself so I can keep the form solid.

I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and what worked to overcome it? I've read some of Rick Walker's articles and he talks a lot about hip strength, although I've never been completely sure what this means. I did try deadlifting sumo for a while, which felt ok, but I felt out of the groove for a while when going back to regular.

Ive just ordered a trap bar, so shall be giving that a go soon.

Where are your eyes when you're lifting? look up, not down.

Paul

I dont deadlift at the moment and am no expert by any means but I sometimes give the deadlift a go now and again and can usually hit the same weight i rack squat with sometimes more,which is not too bad for not doing the exercise.

I think the bottom or near bottom postition rack squat builds alot of hip strength not to mention lower back strength.By dropping the deadlift weights down and doing some lighter deads to keep the groove then working BPS for a while you may find your deadlift weights starting to rise with better form from the added hip/glute and lower back strength
You might find light kettlebell swings helpfull aswell to help lower back recovery or done with a band doingvery explosive swings will help aswell
Mark

I am definatly no expert when it comes to the deadlift so I think I will leave this to someone else, but what i will say is that the Trap bar is an amazing bit of kit. It would not surprise me if you added 20kg to your normal deads in a couple of weeks of training- thats what happened when i used it.

Do you have any footage?

When you say 'weight gets near my max' are you talking about when you are doing multiple reps and begin to fatigue...or is this when you have warmed up with a few sets and are genuinely going for a true 1RM?

What is your technique like when sub-max?

What sort of percentage of your max do you begin to find your technique breaks down?

I have / had the same problem.
When the bar gets heavy I straight my legs first and then I do the rest with the lower back so that it becomes almost a stiff legged deadlift.
I never took the time to properly learn the technique.
Now I'm working on the technique a lot (lowered the weight) and I really notice the difference:
If I lift a weight (say 180kg) with the right technique, then it's an easy lift, but if I screw up my technique, it get's really heavy.

What I've found is helping me a lot for hip strength and technique is deep squats with a wider stance then shoulder width. I've been doing these a few weeks now and I feel a lot of improvement.
Front squats have a similar effect but I stopped doing them cause the bar hurts my bones (we call it key-bones) a lot. Perhaps I'll give it another try with the thickbar soon

Hope this helps you

Cheers!

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Twig, yeah I try to look up.

MarkR, I've occasionally done bottom position squats in the past and quite liked them, don't always have access to a power rack at the moment sadly. I can see how that might work, as in the deadlift you're starting from the bottom as well.

James, don't have any footage, might be a good idea to get someone to video me one of these days. It's actually both - towards the end of rep sets or near max singles. Sub max I think my technique is ok, I'd guess it starts to go around the 90% mark.

MarkV I think improving my squat in general would help, I can probably deadlift close to 50% more than I can squat. I find front squats quite painful across my bony shoulders as well, wearing a jumper or using a towel helps a bit, I find olympic style best, but it needs quite flexible wrists.

If you are just using the Deadlift as a strength/growth building exercise, it may be useful changing to a Trap Bar, or even Hacklifts?

Yeah I'm definitely going to give the trap bar a go, should help me keep more upright and force me to use plenty of leg as well as lower back.

I would consider a few other things before changing the apparatus.

Firstly, upper back strength. Weak hips are one thing but often people don't have the upper back strength to hold the bar and the back in the right position. Lots of rows, partial deadlifts and heavy shrugs.
Secondly, technique. You need to force your butt down, squeeze your abs tight and push through your feet. This is best learnt with a weight in the 80% range for singles or doubles. Try doing 10 singles on the minute for 10 minutes. Then go to doubles. This will force good technique.

Nick

Great advice Nick.

Nick McKinless wrote:I would consider a few other things before changing the apparatus.

Firstly, upper back strength. Weak hips are one thing but often people don't have the upper back strength to hold the bar and the back in the right position. Lots of rows, partial deadlifts and heavy shrugs.
Secondly, technique. You need to force your butt down, squeeze your abs tight and push through your feet. This is best learnt with a weight in the 80% range for singles or doubles. Try doing 10 singles on the minute for 10 minutes. Then go to doubles. This will force good technique.

Nick

Excellent advice. I've been thinking of adding either a partial deadlift or some shrugs myself. I'd also add some planches too.

Paul,

Get some footage up if you can mate. It's the only way to really see what may be happening.

In the meatime though, go with Nick's advice - you can never have a back that's too strong.

My advice is pretty similar to Nick's as you have said your technique is fine until 90%+.

So, the dull, but appropriate answer IMHO, is that good technique is the cure for bad technique.

Often slowing things down can be helpful to ensure better technique. By that I mean taking more time between each rep...rather than slowing the performance of the rep itself.

When I had some back problems and wanted to ensure correct technique each rep, I set myself a time limit for performing my reps. Between each rep I took a step away from the bar..took three breaths and then addressed the bar again for the next rep. It gave me time to run through the mental technique cues each rep. It also reduced the cumulative fatigue from multiple efforts.

I learned about this approach through the Brad Gillingham deadlift DVD. I don't think it is a world away from rest-pause training.

The other thing that might be of interest is 'wave loading' by Charles Poliquin. It can be a good way of combining higher and lower weights in the same workout. therefore allowing you to test your technique on heavier weights while simultaneously training your technique on lighter weights.

If you are considering rack work for lockouts it might be worth going the whole hog and using bands. Visually, you need to picture a child's swing in the park!!

Basically, you want to have 2 bands at the top of the squat rack and have the barbell suspended on them. Depending on the strength of the bands it might take 100kg or so to get the bar to the ground. then basically you deadlift as normal.

the barbell is light at the floor but gets heavier as it rises. So you are essentially doing lockouts but (unlike partial rackpulls) you are definately in the same groove as your regular deads

Thanks guys, sounds like drilling the form with fairly heavy but sub max weights is the way to go.
I haven't done shrugs in ages, so reckon it can't hurt to try and fit them back in.
Was just looking at getting some bands the other day funnily enough, LKB were out of stock though.